Whacks On Whacks Off

Lizzie Borden took an ax gave her mother forty whacks. When she saw what she had done she gave her father forty one 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, I'm Vera. I'm Mia. And we are Spectrum. Um We haven't done an episode in quite a bit. Uh I've I've been really sick and my and also m my boyfriend was visiting, so and we do plan to do an episode with him, but um fuck I forgot to like pull up my notes. They were so busy having fun that uh we didn't get a chance to. So yeah, so I do plan to do an episode with him when he comes back next week. I'm really excited. Oh, next week? Uh about, yeah. Really? Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. This episode's about Lizzie Borden, but um the album of the day is Brave Murder Day by Catatonia, which it has murder in the title, which is partially why I picked it, and also because I love Catatonia. This album's really pretty. Um, Catatonia is a Swedish Doom slash or Death Doom prog band formed in Stockholm in 1991. They were originally they formed in 1987 under the name Melancholium, but changed their name to Catatonia in 1991. They've split up a bunch of times, but like present day they've been together like united since 2019. Um Brave Murder Day is their second full-length release, and it is a more gothic approach to Death Doom. Personally, I think anything they release is a masterpiece. Dance of December Souls, their first album, is one of my favorite albums of all time. This one was released August 1st, 1996, under Avant Garde Music, which is a record label, but it has a really fitting name. Um this album has a beautiful, strange, and harming sound to it. I got really lucky because when we were in St. Louis first saw the musical, um, we went to a record store and they had this CD second hand for six dollars. And I actually got the I got an original copy um where the logo's purple because uh shortly after the release they changed the logo on the album cover from purple to black and white because it you could can't really see it. Because at first I didn't know what the hell I was looking at when I saw it, but then I was like, oh my god, that's Catatonia, and I got really excited. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um but yeah, they inspired Worm, actually. And Zaster has a Palace of Frost covered. But uh yeah, even if you're not into metal, you should definitely check out Catatonia because they have some uh their newer releases, I would say pretty much anybody could enjoy it, like stuff like Agilac and um uh Dream Unending and Catatonia, that's music that everybody can find some enjoyment in, even if it is metal and you're not a fan of metal, just because it's so like instrumental heavy and it's like Dream Unending's like the pink floor to Doom Metal, and it's like catatonia's like the doors? I don't fucking know. Um they're very influential though, um, and I would definitely say that they're um one of the one of the greats, especially when it comes to like Doom Metal, and they're a titan in the Swedish music scene. But um, yeah. So this episode's about Lizzie Borden. Ooh, what'd you think of her? Okay, so Mia didn't know who Lizzie Borden was. I know I fucking idea. And um I'm just like, were you shocked before you go into anything? Not really, but she absolutely did that shit. Yeah? Okay, all right. She totally did that. Alright, so she's gonna go first, and then I'm gonna go after, but yeah, go ahead. Alright. Lizzie Borden jo b right. Yeah. Born July 19th, 1860, in Fall River, Massachusetts, was tried August 4th, 1892, and acquitted for murdering her father and stepmom by axe. Um, starting off strong. It was an accident. Yeah. I'm kidding, I don't know. Oh fucking. Yeah. Um she grew up religious and her family attended Central Congregational Church, and she was very involved, even teaching Bible school and or Sunday school, the children of immigrants. She was also a treasury secretary for the Christian Endeavor Society, and she was also in like groups for like women and stuff like that, women in the church. Um kind of woke.

unknown 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Which I kind of fuck with her for that. Yeah. Um her mom died, and three years after her her father remarried to some chick named Abby. Abby Durfee Gray. I had no idea that it wasn't her mom. I didn't know it was her stepmom, but she wasn't. No, it's her stepmom. I just hit my mic. I hope it's not super loud enough. We have some puppy pals with us today. Um my daughter Maddie's dogs are here. Yeah, they're kicking it.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

We got um Gunner with us right now.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

He's got him and his fat rolls.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yep, and Roxy. Um, Gunner is actually the brother of Ike and Patton.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

So, same parents, different litter from Patton, but the boys are on the same litter. The boys are basically twins. Yeah. Like fraternal. Yeah. Is that a thing when it comes to animals because they're all born at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I think it should be, because like I'm sure there's something about that. I think they're all like quadruplets if there's the letter of four, you know. But at any rate, the beagles love hanging out together. They get along famously. Do they? They're yeah, they're all right. I'm surprised Patton's not bitching on him. She wasn't really sure what to think. Um It's been a while since he's been here. Yeah, and then um I haven't we haven't had Norman and Roxy around each other yet. Oh god, that's gonna be a nightmare. No, I don't think so. I don't think so because they got along. They loved each other last time. Norman's a bitch and Roxy's worse. I don't know, we'll see. So it'll be interesting. But go hooking. Sorry. So it's kind of weird that he remarried so soon, which is three years, that's pretty soon to me. But because especially because it was the Victorian age and mourning was like in fashion, but I guess that was just for women. I think that was just for women, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

But men men mourned too. Like they had mourning fashion as well, but I guess it was less frowned upon for them to move on super fast. Yeah. And that's not really super fast. But to Victorian standards, I don't I mean that's a that's pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

I don't know. I mean, I think any longer he would have been considered like a male spinster, you know. A eunuch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Well, I mean, whatever. I just I don't know. Like, for women, I think the expectation has always been Morning was romanticized. Yeah. The fucking Victorian age was so goth. It really was. It was because death was fancy and they there was so much death around that they romanticized it. Fancy death. Name my new band.

unknown 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Alright. Um, he married Abby Durfee Gray, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Um, who was called Mrs. Borden by Lizzie because she did not fuck with her. Um, she was convinced that she married her father for money. She also never eat meals with them, which is which was um told to the authorities by the maid, who was an immigrant from Ireland. Yeah. Um I don't actually remember what the maid's name was, but anyways. I think I have it, but go ahead. Um after an argument in July 1892, Lizzie and her sister went on a couple vacations to New Bedford for it was actually pretty long sabbaticals, but Bridget. Bridget, yeah. Bridget was the maid. Yeah. Um they kept calling her by her last name in my source, so it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, no, you're fine, you're fine. Um a week before the murders, they came back and for four days Lizzie stayed in what was basically a hotel before going home. It was like a boarding house. Really? Yeah. I'm guessing was in a boarding house. Oh, that's she boarding in a house? Sounds boreding. Maybe she was bored at home. No. Ah, there you go. There it is. I like that one. She so like I'm guessing that she was getting her affairs in order. So wait, so the parents went on vacation? No, the uh Lizzie and her sister Emma. Okay, so they went on vacation and then she refused to come home for like four days. Really? What I'm guessing is that she was planning. Emma was already at home. Yeah. Um she did not like them. She really didn't, and it's kind of funny. Oh, and she really didn't like them because her father would give like gift pieces of real estate to um Abby's family. Oh. Free of charge. And Lizzie and Emma, they were pissed off by that because Emma didn't really like her either, but sh sh I haven't seen much about her. Um was it because of like a dowry kind of thing, do you think? I no they do dowries? They did, but they it wasn't like that. He was just doing it. Huh. Okay. Um, and Lizzie and Emma were like, hey, give me some fucking real estate because that like that's taken away from them. Yeah, that's stupid. Yeah. And I totally get that, because like you're giving away real estate, but we still live at home as adults.

unknown 9:11

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

I think the expectation back then was for them to be married before they left home anyway. No, I know, but like they probably were pissed off because they didn't think anything was gonna be left for them.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, and like a free house? Come on. Yeah. So they bought the house that their mother died in from him for a dollar. And you know what? Couple a few weeks before the murder, they sold it back to him for five thousand dollars, which modern day is about a hundred and eighty grand. Really? So they bought they got uh one hundred and seventy-nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine dollar fucking payout. So sweet! Good for them. What I'm guessing is that that was her plan to like change her name and live out the rest of her days in um uh fucking what was what was the place called? Where did they live? Um, and it was a massive, yeah. Live out the rest of her days in Fall River, like peacefully and alone, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Um that's what I'm guessing the money was for. So she was pretty smart for that, if that's the case. I mean, and either way, she was smart for that, because like a fuck sweet. Yeah. Like you could you could buy Delaware for that much back then. Um Andrew, her dad, because of course that's his name. Of course that's his name. Um I don't think I've ever met a Drew that I like. An Andrew? Andrew. Yeah, I don't know many Andrews I like. Well, actually, I know a couple. I knew one. I know a couple of Andrew. There's but I do have to admit that it's hard when I meet one. And you're like, hmm. I know you're evil, I just can't prove it. It's just it's so hard. It's so hard. It's very hard. Okay, go ahead. Alright. Um so Andrew was not well liked in town, so it would have been no surprise if he was poisoned, because once the girl's maternal uncle visited, then after then everyone ate mutton some one night and they were all sick. So So Abby thought that he got poisoned, and it's like No, they were just a terrible. Yeah. Yeah, they left out the mutton for a week before cooking it. Yeah, yeah. Idiots. Yeah, I remember. I remember when I made lamb for the first time. Oh, I did not.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Oh, it's probably a good thing because I gave everybody food poisoning.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, I've told you, Marfid protects me. And you know what? Honestly, gotta be honest, like Thank God I'm disabled. That was like my Christmas gift. You know, because I made it for Christmas and I gave everybody food poisoning. Congratulations, everyone. You get a head start on weight loss for New Year's. Thank God I'm disabled and I didn't eat that. I've got like the the mental shit, so I'm like, uh-uh. I won't eat anything new because that's poison. And I was fucking right. I mean, it wasn't poison if it was not cooked well. Yeah, it wasn't poison on purpose. Alright, Abby was the first to die. On August 4th, 1892. Um, first she was struck on the side of her head because she was facing her killer. She fell to the ground and like lacerated her face a bit. Oh. Um, a couple contusions there. And then 17 more axe blows were delivered to the back of her fucking head. Holy shit. We did not like her. Wow. I mean, you definitely got the point. Come on. At that point, I feel like the bitch has it coming. If a woman delivers 17 axe blows to the back of your head, you did something.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Was it a large axe? It was a large axe. Was it like a large axe or was it like a hatchet? Like a hatchet isn't very heavy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Either way, for a woman to do that, I mean, for anyone. Listen, for anybody to do that. Yeah, no, like especially a woman, like your daughter.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

But it was her step-mom.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, I know, but still.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

You know, you know what I mean. Like, she had to have done something.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I don't mean to victim blame, but like, there's a lot more than we're gotta be honest, you guys, I don't have a problem with stepmoms that we're not being told. You are a stepmom. Yeah, that that that stepmom is an inside joke with our family, so that's why me and I said it. Yes, so yeah. So, okay, alright, go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Um, but like she had to have done something for that. I don't mean to victim blame, but there's so much more that nobody's telling us. Like she had to have been the worst bitch ever.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

I mean I don't know, but it doesn't say what okay, keep going, keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

I didn't write any I didn't write that down because I couldn't find anything. You couldn't find any reasons, really? Not really. Oh well, I found a couple possible motives, but yeah later. Okay. Um Andrew came home at 10 30 in the morning, knocking because one of his keys failed. The maid answered and swore she heard Lizzie laughing upstairs, coincidentally, where Abby's dead body was, unbeknownst to the maid. Okay. Lizzie denied being upstairs when asked, and she said that Abby was out visiting a sick friend because she got a a notice of leave.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Um, Andrew, after sitting on the sofa to nap, was struck ten times with a hatchet, one of his eyes split clean in half. He was asleep when it happened. Mm-hmm. Um Lizzie Wait, he didn't wake up when that happened? No. Did they not share a room? I want what he's on. So hang on a second. So he was on the sofa downstairs. Okay. Like in the living room. By like he just fell asleep. Okay. Okay, go ahead. I mean, fuck it, why not? You know, Victorian sofas were comfy. I've sat on a few and they're really nice.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

I mean, my grandmother's when we sat on it, we had to be careful when we sat on it.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

For a reason, because they're nice as fuck. There it is, a very nice couch. Oh my god, you're old. Your grandma was Victorian. She was a Victorian, she just bought Victorian furniture. She bought it from Frederica Nelson. Okay, I was about to say, holy shit, mom. Dude, like, I'm not I mean, okay, I am old. I almost half a century. Almost half century. Stopped in what, 1890 or something? 1899.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

My gosh. Just before.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, because Edwardian Age was 1901 to 1910.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

What is an Edwardian Age?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

1901 to 1910. I know, but what is it? Like, I know what the Victorian Age is, but like it's often like they named the eras after who was queen at the time. Mmm. Okay, that makes sense. Good. Or like who was ruling the UK at the time. Okay. Because the Victorian Age, it blows my mind. Okay, this is off topic, but it blows my mind that samurais and cowboys existed at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Like. The fuck. Anyways. Oh, that's amazing. Can you imagine those two squaring up? Wow, wow, wow. She's amazing. Your sound effects are killing me. I really like the I like picturing that. But so Lizzie called the maid from downstairs and she said, Oh my god, someone snuck in and killed my dad. He's dead. Someone killed him. I don't fucking know. Do you want me to ask her? Oh no. Go dig her up? Yeah. In your wooden grave? No. But she said someone came and killed him. Um, it was a recent attack because he was still fucking bleeding.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Oh, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, that's like me shooting someone and being like, oh my god, someone's been shot. So as they're actively spewing out of the So Emma was home when it happened. Emma's not the maid. I know, Emma's her sister. I don't know where Emma was, actually. Okay, keep going, keep going. Um but the family physician called and came and confirmed their deaths dead at the scene. Yeah, fucking duh. I mean Maybe I should be a family physician because I could have told you that. Oh, his eye is split in half. Are you okay, Andrew? Let's check his pulse. First day of the detective. How did the victim drown? He couldn't breathe underwater. Oh god. God damn Sherlock, you are a genius. Uh, you know, don't know what to say. It's that your eye is split in half. Let's check his pulse. He's got ten blows to the head. Let's check his let's let's see his heartbeat.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Do you think that she was do you think she was getting tired because she did 17 for her stepmom and only 10 for him?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Probably. Yeah, honestly, my arm would get tired too.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

You know there was a song about that, right? Okay, go ahead, keep going. I'll find it.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Okay. Um that would piss me off so bad. Um, Lizzie's answers were super contradictory and strange in her interrogations. I can't pick I can't picture Victorian detectives, I'm sorry. Um, I'm just picturing them in like ruffles and and their and their weird little tights and their powdered wigs and shit, and they're like, Where were you? They're weird little tights and their powdered fucking Where were you, the knight of the Fourth? Hmm, I was swimming. Women can't swim! What? Oh okay, here it is. Yeah, like what? So it actually was not a song, it was a nursery rhyme. Oh god. Yep. Lizzie Borden took an X and gave her mother 40 wax.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

When she saw what she had done, she gave her daughter 40. I mean, she gave her father 41. Um, so it says the cat even though it's cat the neighbor the numbers are completely incorrect. Yeah. Um oh, and it said that okay, so it said that Abby was struck roughly 18 times. They're like, redoing the math, and Andrew was 11, not 41.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I don't know, but I mean the first strike took his fucking eye clean in half.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

We weren't there, so we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Okay, so go. But I digress. I digress. Um, they said that she was very calm and poised as if nothing had happened at all. And it's like, hey, do you know the drugs women were on back then? You thought barbiturates in the 50s were bad? Oh bitch. I mean, didn't they people were lobotomized back then? Didn't they like powder their noses? Yeah. It was snowing.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

It was snowing everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, but if I was on cocaine and I saw my dad die over like, oh my god! He was taken out by a white horse. I'm sorry, okay. A blizzard. A snowstorm. It was a snowball fight. It just hit him really hard. It was sharp. There's a rock. Oh god, like the Happy Tree Friends episode. I never want to watch that fucking show again.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

We'll have to talk about it later. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Happy Tree Friends?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Oh, it was so bad. I thought it was a kid's show, and I was like nine, and I was like, oh, this looks cute. Oh shit. No. No. Scarred me for life. And it was cartoon gore. It wasn't even good. It was just like, it was really shitty, and I was like, oh wow. I really don't like that. I'm never watching that again. I stayed off YouTube for a couple weeks after that, actually. Wow. Um but me, huh? Look at me and my failed parenting. No, you're good. Um they searched. For the record, I usually do monitor what they're doing at that age. At that age.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

At that age.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

You have a lot going on. You just had a baby.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, but I did just have a but yeah. Anyways, go on.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah. Um Black parenting's only okay if you have a new baby. Okay, okay. Uh they searched her for blood and didn't find any. They didn't search her room properly because she wasn't feeling well. Um the fucking officers were scolded so severely for their negligence after that. Because wake the bitch up and drag her out. What do you mean she's not feeling well? Does she have consumption? Which one? They didn't search Lizzie's room because she wasn't feeling well. Well, they didn't search it very thoroughly because they were like, oh, this bitch just this bitch has heartpes. She might be contagious. I don't want that shit. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want consumption. Listen, people were dying from a lot of weird shit back then. I do not fucking blame them. People die from weird shit nowadays. We should do an episode on Mr. Hands.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Oh God, you know so many things I don't. Okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Mr. Hands, the guy who got fucked to death by a horse in Enum Claw.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Oh God.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah. It's on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

He couldn't handle it.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Like the video's on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Oh god, I don't want to see that video.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, I didn't either. Um but yeah, a friend she and her sister were staying with after the murders reported that Lizzie went down to burn a quote, old paint-covered skirt. Right. She was jailed very briefly, then acquitted. Um she changed her name to Lisbeth and lived the rest of her life in Fall River until dying at sixty six from pneumonia on june first, nineteen twenty seven. Possible motives were rumored incestuous sexual assaults from her father, a fugue state, or from being caught having sex by Abby. Um the maid said on her deathbed that she changed her testimony to protect Lizzie. There's also rumors that Lizzie was a lesbian, but that's fucking irrelevant. I actually have heard that. Yeah. Yeah. And then the the maid was like, no, she fucking wasn't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Um so that's okay, so that's really bizarre. Like honestly, I had heard that uh that the maid was like when she had testified that she was being honest.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

But oh she was lying out her ass.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

So she said that she did it to protect her.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Because she didn't want to go to Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Well, so I actually did hear about like the abuse and stuff like that because there was actually a door that adjoined Lizzie and her parents' room, and Lizzie had actually nailed it shut.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

I totally believe it. I gotta be honest, she's a bad bitch for that era.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And she knew where all the tools were and she knew how to use them. Yeah, I kind of fuck with her. Yeah. So like she's a fucking murderer, but I still kind of swapped his fucking eye in half. So now what I did my portion on is um what is going on with the Lizzie Borden house now. So I bet that's so haunted. Oh yeah, actually, so it is said to be the so she lived really long for a Victorian too. She actually did. For six at 66? People were dying straight out the womb back then. Well, you know what? She had a lot of cardio from that. People did not clean their baby bottles back then. Oh yeah. They they it it was a superstition that you weren't supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, I heard about that.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah. Yeah. There was fucking lead paint everywhere. They were eating lead to become paler, plucking their hairlines and shit. Oh my gosh, we should do one about radium. Oh my god, we should do the radium girls. Yes, we should. I thought we already did. No, we talked about it, we just didn't get to it yet. Oh, okay, yeah. Um Triangle Shirt Waist Factory. Oh. Shit. We should do that too. Yeah. Well, not do that, but like Yeah, no, definitely not. We're not gonna do that. Yeah, no, I actually don't feel like it. So on it. Lizzie Lizzie Borden's is called what she did was called America's Greatest Unsolved Murder Mystery. She totally did that shit. Yeah, they said that they said they was just There was so much evidence because she was burning clothes and nobody can find the dress that she committed the murders in. Yeah. What do you mean an old paint covered skirt? Did the bitch paint? I mean, look. Was she an artist? She uh she knew how to use hammer and nails. I guess she was just blue-collar. You know what? I mean, maybe that's why they thought that she was Yeah, and her fucking stepmom became the woman with the green ribbon, because Lizzie, blue collar, green ribbon. You don't know about the girl with the green ribbon? No. Keeps her head on. Oh shit. You never heard that story? No. Will you write these things down, please, so that we can. I don't have a pen. Okay. I'll text it to you. Okay, sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Okay, so it is also said to be um, it is a historic gym, and it's also called the most haunted house in the United States. Um, so today it runs as a bed and breakfast. Are you fucking serious? Totally not even joking. Um, it runs as an inn, a bed and breakfast, as well as a museum that is open from 10 a.m. to midnight, featuring a variety of ghost tours and experiences throughout the day, including evening historic ghost tours, ghost tours, and ghost hunts.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

So we should also do an episode on that that one book, The Yellow Wallpaper, the one about postpartum psychosis. I think we should definitely talk about that book because it scarred me for fucking life. Okay. I remember I read it in English class for like a uh assessment or something. Uh-huh. It was one of those like kind of state tests, but not really benchmark tests, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I read it and I was like, holy shit. This is this is terrifying. I'd I'd you know how hard it is to scare me. I couldn't sleep after that. I was in fucking I was a junior. Okay, so I went through that when I read um Ted Bundy's autobiography.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

When I read that, I swear to God, from his perspective, it makes it seem like what he was doing was no different than just looking out his own bedroom window.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

It was terrifying. This fucking guy. Oh my god, yeah. So I don't like him. He wasn't that smart.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

So the right right now, what's going on is there is a modern day trademark and eviction dispute involving the historic Lizzie Bordenhouse. Um, it has made headlines um in recent years. So it was purchased in April of 2021 by uh the US Ghost Adventures.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Almost like a hundred years after Lizzie died. Yeah. So get this shit right. I was a little confused because I've heard about the so this is the same company that actually purchased the um McIntyre Villa in Acheson. What's that? So it's a haunted mansion in in Acheson. And you haven't taken me there? Um, I wanted to. I was actually gonna take you, and we were gonna go to the Sally House that weekend that you have plans. But what weekend? Um it was in June, and I said, Hey, you want to go to Sally House? And you're like, I have plans. I do want to go though. I know Melissa and Mason. Okay, that's fine. They could have come, but either way, they wouldn't have wanted to. Yeah, probably not. But um, so they're the same company that bought that the McIntyre Villa in Atchison, okay? So get this.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

I did not know that the Ghost Adventures company that bought like the Lizzie Borden house in 2021 and just purchased the McIntyre Villa. Like they literally just purchased it a couple months ago.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

I thought, well, so they're what they're doing is they're restoring them and having them um put as like historical landmarks.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

So what they do is they make sure that everything is restored to like period correct and everything, and like they want them to be like tourist attractions, and so that's what they do, they have them put into it recognized at uh DC as a historical landmark.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

They're already historical landmarks, they're already tourist attractions. Well, they are tourist attractions, but that one huh? I don't understand why people insist on making things tourist attractions uh a hundred percent of the time, because like if it's spirit activity, it's like genuinely dangerous spirit activity, I don't mean a Lizzie Borden house because I don't think there's much spirit activity there. I mean d I don't doubt that it's haunted, but like I don't really think there would be any malicious spirit energy there, like of all places. I really don't think so. But like making places with like terrible history, like plantations, tourist attractions, or like wedding venues and all that, you're stirring up so much energy. Yeah and like if there's specifically dangerous energy there, like the house of Delphine La Lerie, and it's a tourist attraction, you're steering you're fucking gearing up more energy, and you're just gonna make it more intense, and more people are gonna be like, oh my god, this is really bad. And it's just gonna ruin more people's lives, and then there's gonna be people hearing about how it's ruining people's lives, like all the spirit activity and the hauntings and shit like that. Yeah. And then there's just gonna be more fucking people going. It's do it does more harm than good, really. It's just a natural curiosity. No, I get it. You know, people just want to do that. So I mean we're paranormal investigators for the same reason, but like it's just because we're nosy as fuck. But yeah. It's just like I don't think that they should be tourist attractions. I think that they should be limited to people like who investigate those things, like and know what they're doing and have proper protection against those things. I think it's really stupid to let just tourists in there. Like, yeah, let's bring your fucking kid, let's bring your baby. I mean, I brought Taylor to all that's different because we were protected. Yeah. Yeah, Taylor's been like it. If we were to go to New Orleans right now and go to the house of Delphine Wallerie and we would bring Hunter, or if Maddie went, because she's not as superstitious as we are, and she didn't bring any tourmaline or protection or anything like that, that would be fucking awful.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

I mean, she won't even do an investigation now because she doesn't want anything.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

She has a baby, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yeah, like the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Because she knows better. Yeah. Tourists don't. Yeah. Yeah, like the moment she got pregnant, she's like, nope, I'm not gonna do any investigations. But you know what I mean, right? Yeah. No, I totally get what you're saying because you know, any any spirit can attach itself to somebody. It's just not smart. You just don't have any control over that. And like a vengeful spirit. Oh, you just never know. And if you know how many snide stupid comments a tourist makes, it's just like, oh man, that bitch was ugly to like a fucking portrait of someone who's haunting that house. It attaches itself to them, follows them out, and it's like, hey, you think I'm ugly, and it just disfigures their face or some shit, you know? Yeah. It's just like and I know nothing really that intense, but like you get what I mean. I mean stuff like that. Because people can happen. People say some stupid shit. Yeah. Especially if they know if they don't know or care that something is listening.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

And then bad things happen, you know? Yeah, no, I get it. I totally get it. Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I mean, like, I see what you're saying. But I mean, yeah, that's tourists are stupid. I will say you've got to be careful if you go on any of any of those investigations.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

No, I know. And we've we've always been. We always I mean, I wasn't with Kevin, but that was on purpose. I thought that was an accident. I mean, it was on accident, but then once I realized I didn't have my terminal, and I was like, this will be really interesting, actually. That was a very interesting night. It was extremely interesting. So the so the US Ghost Adventures, I thought that it was the because they have a show. There's a show called Ghost Adventures. I know. It's not the same company. It's a good show, though. I did not know I don't I cannot stand those shows. Really? I used to really like it. You know why I don't like those shows? These vengeful spirits. I don't like his voice. I don't like them because what they're exploitative. They are. So when people like that, when companies like that go in, and I realize that they're probably only showing the parts where they actually do get evidence. Which is like 2% of the hours or days, but it's like how many investigations have we been on where like shit just didn't happen? Like three. Yeah, I mean, it's like, and everybody's like, oh my god, this place is so crazy. Not really so crazy. And we get there and we're like, No. Because we're protected and we're not stupid.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Well, I mean, like when when we did that investigation at that one place on Fort Riley, yeah, and they said, Hey, I really want you to check out this area, blah, blah, blah. And everyone's like, Oh my god, it's so bad, it's so bad. And then we checked out the area and we did it, and then we had that paranormal team in there doing it, and then we came back and did it, and there was nothing there.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yeah. You know, it's like every time you do an investigation, it doesn't mean that you're gonna find something. It's an investigation for a reason. It is, and you know what? The cops investigating Lizzie Borden didn't find shit. Why would we? Well, and that's the thing, it's like you don't constantly get jumping activity. I mean, I will say we do sometimes, most of the time. A lot of the times, many of the places that we have gone, we haven't we've had like a lot of activity, even our house, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

But we don't talk about it in our house because we don't want to like encourage it.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

I remember when Lance was here, um, he saw a shadow figure run down the stairs. Yeah. I was sitting right here, nobody else was here. Yeah, everybody else was asleep. He saw a fucking straight shadow figure just run down the stairs. Yeah. And he was like, What the fuck was that? Well, I mean, the other day I was like, he was so tired he didn't even know like what to think. He was like, Oh my god. Yeah. I mean, he's just like, did you not see that? We're just used to it. Are you serious? But I don't I don't encourage it. So No, I know, but I genuinely didn't see it. I thought it was tweaking. I was like, what the fuck? Well, I mean, I just I mean, there it's energy is everywhere, and how it responds to you is you know, it it could be hit or miss. I mean more it more times than not, we have had a lot of interactions in places that we've gone. Can you like pet the the other side of your hair? Because there's like a knot and it's it's messing with me. Okay, yeah. I was cleaning the um so anyway that's been really messing with me. So I did not know that the ghost adventures that bought that property is not the same ghost adventure. Not Zach Baggins. No, it's not. So Zach Baggins is the Ghost Adventures company. His voice is annoying as shit, but I liked the bald guy. But the Ghost Adventures Company is a tourist company. Yeah. Which is interesting because they have the same name. And there is actually You would think they would have trademarked that. So you would think, right? Because that is actually the dispute that's going on right now with the Lizzie Warden house. Yeah. So and I honestly don't know how I feel about that company. Like, why don't they just become one company? You would think. Stupid as hell. So, but this is the thing. I don't know what I think about these guys because they kind of seem shitty. The company or the television guys?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

No, the comp the comp the tourist company, because okay, so there's this little fucking um, there's this little coffee shop that was right next door to the fucking Lizzie Borden house, right? And it's called Miss Lizzie's Coffee. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

And the picture, there's a picture of a girl holding an axe on the sign, right? That's stupid. Oh yeah, I think so too. But then not to harp on a small business. Actually, no, I don't even care that it's a small business. If it's stupid, I'm gonna say it. But it's a s but the thing. Buy my 3D printed bullshit dragon for th six dollars. I mean, they bought a lot of those. Or like eight dollars. That's still both a lot of those. That's like two inches long. Like, that's so stupid. But the I have a friend with a 3D printer who would make us that shit for free. Fall River, Massachusetts. Massive huge tits. I mean, like, gotta be honest, there's a lot of fucking shit down there going on. Massachusetts, there's so much tourist attractions. There's a lot, right? Like Salem, Boston, all that. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. So these fucking guys from the US fucking ghost hunters fucking place sued that little fucking coffee shop because they said that they were taking business away from their thing. Because it's not their fault, their coffee's better than your fucking entertainment. Well, you know what it is? It's like they said, I don't know exactly what happened, because originally they were like besties in the fucking spooky westies, you know, and they got along great, and they gave them this honorary such and such award, whatever, right? That some somewhere along the line, and it doesn't say what happened. There was a conflict that occurred, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:58

And because of the conflict, like all of a sudden the fuss fucking Ghost Adventure said that they were that they were boycotting the fucking coffee shop, was boycotting fucking the Lizzie Borden house.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Probably had a reason. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. No, it's like you know how fucking they have to be either really petty or you did some bullshit for a small business to boycott you. Yeah, so they so the primary conflict began September of 2023 when the parent when US Ghost Adventures um was started suing the fucking Lizzie's coffee because they claimed that the coffee's name and hatchet logo were confusingly similar to their established trademarks and the coffee shop was capitalizing on the historic property's success. Yes, of course they fucking were. Yeah, no shit. Because what else is there? So is the company. Yeah, let's profit off of someone's murder. That shit pisses me off so bad, by the way. Yeah. Like, when people I did like making tourist attractions of places where murders happen, that's like me wearing Columbine High School merch. That's fucking stupid. I mean, it's fucked, is what it is. Like, yeah, let me wear a fucking ooh, ooh, that would like that would be like me selling t-shirts of Abu Ghraib or however the hell it was pronounced, those fucking like prisoners in the Middle East that were tortured by US soldiers, that would be like me wearing a t-shirt of that and selling them. Yeah. Like profiting off of tragedy is fucking stupid. If it's horrible, if it didn't impact you, it's none of your business. Like, especially that corporation in particular. Now I see why you don't like them. No, I think they're slimy. And they're and they're fucking over a small business. The small business isn't going out of the house. They are profiting out of an iconic event that occurred in their town. Yeah. It's iconic in their eyes, but in the in the eyes of like the fucking the people have a natural crisp ki curiosity to this, to the Lizzie Borden house. A lot of people do. Like a cafe, like they're just not profiting. That's not condoning. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. It's like they're just being shitty. So they said like Salem and all the witch trial themed activities, that's they're more or less a little shitty, but like that's that was ages ago. Well, I think what it is with the Salem witch trials is because what they're trying to do is it's almost they're trying to raise awareness. And this is people who live in that city. This is a big corporation stomping on locals about an event that happened in their town. You know, it's not the small businesses I have a problem with, it's the large corporations. Yeah. And these guys came in. That's like that would be like they don't even go here. That would be like fucking Tamu selling t-shirts of the riot of Tiananmen Square. Yeah. Like profiting a large company profiting off of a tragedy. Yeah. That happened in a set area. And that's what I'm saying. So like it was someone now, if it was someone who lived in Tiananmen, yeah, and they made like a cafe and they donated proceeds to it and they raised awareness about these things. Who fucking cares? Yeah. If it's local, I don't care. Yeah. It can be shitty. I don't care. They're not billionaires. Yeah. Or millionaires, and they're not rich, you know? This is a large corporation. This is a l this is a company. Yeah. This, that cafe, that's a small business owned by the people who live in Fall River. Wait till you hear what they fucking did. What they do. So I'm going on a tangent, but you know what I mean, right? Yeah, no, I totally do. It's called corporate greed versus someone making an insensitive like product. You know, like it's a it's completely different. So on in terms of scale. The civil lawsuit was filed in Bristol County Superior Court.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

It targeted statements Peria made in an article published by the radio station WBSM, as well as the creator of a Facebook page titled Boycott the Lizzie Borden House. So they blamed it on the coffee shop.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

And they said, so it's not the coffee shop's fault that people think you're a fucking prick. People are boycotting the fucking McIntyre villa for the same fucking reason. Because you're a hack. Because they don't like these guys.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

They bought the McIntyre villa and all the fucking I have not seen anybody who lives in Atchison right now who's known about that villa say anything positive about those fuckers.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah, because it's a corporation taking over of fucking a site where a paranormal or horrendous activity happened. Yeah. See, and I don't even know like corporatizing of and I don't know what happened in the McIntyre Villa. I just know that it's really haunted. And there's a woman named Stephanie that owned it, and she she just had to sell it because a lot of repairs had to be done, and she just couldn't she couldn't keep up with them. So, but the people that took over this the fucking McIntyre Villa. I bet it was gentrification. An up-and-coming community. I don't even know. But that's that's what happens most of the time when people own these places. I see I just honestly have no idea what the story is with that because they haven't looked into the McIntyre Villa. They'll offer them the money that they know they can never get running that place. Yeah. And then they'll take it over and they'll run it into the ground. And then they'll blame the other owner. Or like the person who owned it in the first place, and they'll be like, Oh, we just couldn't keep up with the repairs from the previous owner and shit like that, you know? Yes. And it'll give them a bad name. These guys fucking blame the coffee shop, and they said that you know what I mean, right? Like I I I sound like I'm just bullshitting. No, no, no, no, no. They blame the people, like the people. They don't like they blame the community. Like they offer them more than they could ever make from that, even though they know that they're just gonna fuck over the entire community by doing this. So this and then they blame the community by them getting fucked over.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah, so this is what they did, right? Karma. This is why people don't want to go to the McIntyre Villa right now. Except for the people that are going in for the Atcheson, like there's a whole bunch of stuff going on, and I have to admit there's a few things I want to check out down there, but I don't want to check on the McIntyre Villa because of these guys. Because we're boycotting.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

So, yeah, and it's and I'm gonna tell you, I've been boycotting them on accident. I'm not boycotting the McIntyre Villa because of the coffee shop in fucking Massachusetts. Um, I'm boycotting it because these guys are assholes, and this is what they did to the small company. Yeah, right? So the financial impact was they said that the negative statements directly caused a steep drop in tourism traffic, resulting in 1,245 fewer guests. Maybe you're just stuck. Well, you know, they reported a cascade of losses, including $49,601 in ticket sales, $34,727 from overnight stays, and over $51,000 in gift shop rent. That's fucking pocket change. Gift shop. Yeah, they sell like these cute little X key chains. I'm just kidding. I don't know what they sell in the gift shop. I haven't even looked. Oh my god. I haven't even looked. Look, you know what? Someone got murdered here. Let's sell keychains. Uh look, I got a piece. Oh, that pisses me off. They had a gift shop before that place even took it over. Everywhere you go has a gift shop. That still kind of pisses me off. Like, even in other places, like, yeah, let's sell a 9-11 keychain. Like, okay, so Sally House. And say it's for remembrance. Well, so Sally House doesn't have a gift shop there, but Atchison does have a I survived Sally House t-shirts. That's fucking s wasn't someone murdered there.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

No, a little girl had like okay, so a little girl had a surgery that went wrong and she ended up dying. But I don't profit off that. I don't think she died in the house. I think she died after due to complications.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah, let's profit off of the little girl dying. But so let's have a t-shirt that says, yeah, I survived a s a house with the upset spirit of a little girl whose life was cut way too short. Because that's so funny. Okay, I don't know if I'm being that friend who's too woke right now. You're being too woke right now, but it's okay. You get what I mean. Like it bugs it bugs me. It always bugs me. It's shitty. It's shitty. Like that's like the people who thirst after the Columbine shit. What the fucking US Ghost Adventures did to this coffee shop.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

You're never gonna fucking believe they fucking ruined this guy. So Peoria attempted to represent himself. Peoria was the guy that owned the coffee shop, right? He and his wife. All right. He presented a family business.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Yes. Yes. You know, a small town family business. Everyone pissed. He attempted to represent himself without an attorney, which a corporation cannot legally do in federal and in sometimes state matters.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

He defaulted on a lawsuit by failing to legally respond the payout order as direct as a result of the default. The judge ordered Peoria to pay over $160,000 in damages and legal fees to the Lizzie Bordenhouse operators.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

As long as money running as of that. Oh, here comes.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Then, following the combined pressure of the $160,000 of defamation ruling, a separate $239,000 of a trademark dispute, default and eviction from their original space, Pieria moved Miss Lizzie's coffee to a new location. So they relocated to a building new known as the Historic Abbey, where the owners are moving past the feud by planning an independent Lizzie Borden museum exhibit and community centers, uh community visitor center.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

So now I did look into the guy that owned the coffee shop. And I guess that you know he's kind of shady and he's had issues like this a lot. But that's still a family business. I think what it is, I don't think he's shady.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I think he just doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah. Now the problem is when you get these big companies that come in. They'll take advantage of that. Oh God, yeah, they did. He didn't fucking take anything from them. You know, nobody wanted to fucking go to their stupid fucking w axe museum. Because it sucks. I I think it's because the guys that took it over. I don't know how to advertise. Well, I don't even think it's that. I don't think it's if they don't know how to advertise. I think that people resented a large corporation coming in and taking over a small exactly. Yeah, because that's what that's what's going on in Atchison right now, because the owner used to take care of all these cats, these little stray cats, you know. And so people were like consistent. Like a good person. Yeah, people well, it could be a nuisance, I will say. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Like when you have a bunch of feral cats around, and you know, there's cat piss everywhere and it stinks, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

But what they're doing is they they keep showing like pictures of like of the cats from the at from the fucking uh McIntyre Villa. If they're taking care of, you can profit from that. Yeah, so that's what they're doing. They're like taking care of the cats from the McIntyre Villa. So but it's the same company. So I think McIntyre Villa Cat Cafe, I'm calling it now. Yeah, but that would be fine because it's run by the people. And the cats. Yes. Yeah, the cats serving coffee, it's not a couple of things. And you're giving back to the community. Yeah. And if the funds go into the community, you're giving back to the community who lives there. So and that's I think that the I think that people that, you know, when they come in, these big corporations come in, they take over this business that needs some restoration work. And nobody fucking likes that. They they don't. Especially fucking dude, people in Massachusetts do not like large corporations. Yeah. And I think almost everybody I've ever met from Boston is like, oh yeah, fuck billionaires, fuck fuck capitalism. And you know what? I love them for it. They are like the biggest anti-capitalists ever because they live in such a big like money-driven state because people profit from disasters there all the time. And so I and that's the thing, it's like they just But you really think a Bostonian is gonna give you money to profit from a a terrible event, especially if you're a big corporation? Fuck no, they're all about community there. Yeah. Boston? Yeah. Boston! Like the Boston Tea Party. And I mean Kansas is the same way, so Kansas is just because Kansas doesn't really like Kansas is mainly because like these are military people and they're like, dude, this this sucks.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I just know that you know people don't like this big corporation.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

I don't like the fact that they fucking slammed this coffee shop open. I don't like a big corporation in general, but that's shitty. They could have made him homeless. They, I mean, they I I really hope that he's able to get back on his feet because they're gonna make sure he can't. I just think, Jesus, man, that was so shitty.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

So now, what I will say is, because you were talking about paranormal activity in the Lizzie Borden house, so I went through and I was looking at it talks about room-by-room sightings and activity.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Oh, god damn it, Gunnar, did you fart? Probably. Oh. So the sitting room, Andrew Borden's death site. Uh guests and guides have reported seeing a distinct shadow figure enter the room. Some overnight visits wow, you do smell. Some overnight visitors claim to feel an overwhelming sense of grief, while others have photographed strange anomalies floating floating near the replica sofa where Andrew Borden was murdered. Okay, so Abby Borden's death site is called the John Morris guest room. It's on the second floor. It was on the second floor. Yep. The bedroom is considered a hub for paranormal tracking. Visitors frequently report drastic temperature drops and a feeling of physical pressure or heaviness, and the visual imprint of a body pressing down onto the mattress when the bed is empty. Um now in Lizzie's bedroom, guests sleeping on or near Lizzie's former bedroom suite. Oh, yeah, there's hella shadow figures there. That place is so fucking pretty. Um you see those damn chairs? Oh, I'm irritated. Oh, it's beautiful, yeah. Oh. So they reported hearing the sound of a woman crying softly through the walls. Some accounts even claim the sensation of being tucked in lightly or touched by an unseen hand while sleeping. Probably the maid. Um now, the third floor attic, which is Bridget Sullivan's quarters, that's the maid. The top floor is famously associated with sounds of heavy footsteps, disembodied laughter, and the distinct sound of loud jangling keys echoing on the stairwell. Where Sullivan said that she heard Lizzie laughing after the after the murder of Abby. Yeah. And and Lizzie said, no, I do I wasn't laughing. She was. She probably was. And that's why people are hearing laughing. So they do say that there has been some poltergeist activities such as objects moving. Um, staff and visitors have witnessed a heavy wooden rocking chairs rocking violently on their own. The ghosts don't fuck with the big corporation either. Yeah, in the third floor region. Because it's Massachusetts. Yeah. Small objects like marbles and ri are routinely spotted rolling across flat floors, and coat hangers have been filmed jostling inside locked wardrobes. Um, unlatching doors in the dining room where victims' autopsies were originally they fucking performed the autopsies in the fucking dining room. Yeah, they removed the heads during the autopsy too. In the fucking house? They were Victorian mom. Oh, oh, you know what? There are some that yeah, that's true. That's true. They would also keep dead people like in the house, like just posed for ages. Yeah, they didn't know. The Victorian was weird. Yeah. So um the closet doors are known to unlatch and swing wide open entirely on their own after the lights are turned off for the evening.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Um, paranormal investigators using specialized audio equipment frequently capture electronic voice responses, most notably disembodies whispers repeating the name Lazy Borden.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

So um that's got to be made up. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe. So it originally went under contract in March 2021. The sale closed on April 2021. The company president Lance Lance Zow uh bought it for $2 million. The deal included a physical house, operating business, and all-related treadmarks and intellectual property. So um the Ghost Adventures acquired the property to preserve its historical architecture, launch upgraded paranormal tours.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

How in the fuck are they gonna do an upgraded paranormal tour? They're gonna jump out and yell, boo!

SPEAKER_01 53:45

You know, like sorry, I just scared the dog. Um maybe they should have you in charge. Yeah, so they're they're but they're taking over like a lot of corporate like historical landmarks. So some of the if it was simple if if it was just per preservation, they wouldn't have cared about like the small business. Yeah, so the coffee shop it's not about preservation, they want to profit from this territory. Yeah, they want to they want to monopolize it. Yeah, that's what it is. So the coffee shop's owner argued that the business was not a direct competitor and displayed Because it's fucking not conspicuous disclaimers to prevent confusion. Okay, look, are they offering the same product? No, then they're not competitors. No, they're not. So um, anyways, while the recent legal battles involved the property's branding and the neighboring businesses, the house is globally infamous for the 1892 scandal in which 69-year-old Andrew Borden and 64-year-old Abby Borden with a hatchet. So they say axe, but it was a hatchet. They were on the way out, anyways. Victorians died at like 20. I gotta be honest, that is pretty that is pretty old for that time of year. Yeah, like they were gonna go anyways. Um she was That's why you didn't fucking wake up with the acquitted.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

So the unsolved murders re remain a focal point of true crime history.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Um so some of the places say that um the Lizzie Borden lore is ingrained in the local Fall River community, and how the trademark lawsuit has sparked divided opinions among true crime enthusiasts, which I mean we're on the same side here.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

It says Emma and Lizzie could have graciously accepted the house from their father and made it their home. Unfortunately, their greed overpowered their need for peace in the family.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Because what they're saying is that I don't know about that because Lizzie lived her last days in peace. I mean, she definitely dug got a piece of that bitch. She was not fucking around with her. But I mean, it's like the thing is like it talks about like, you know, you were talking about like motives and stuff like that, you know. Um I totally believe the sexual assault thing. I mean, there's her door was nailed shut. Nailed on her side, she nailed that door shut. You know how fucking you know how much it takes to get a Victorian woman to even pick up a hammer?

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

And that's what I'm saying. Like she nailed They weren't doing shit back then.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Yeah, she nailed that fucking door shut on her side. Because it's a Jack and Joe where they have an adjoining bathroom between the yeah. She nailed her door shut. She refused to use that fucking bathroom. So why would a girl and you know when you gotta go, you gotta go, and they wore a lot of clothes, and she would rather fucking walk her ass to another bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

Yeah, to take them all off themselves, too. Oh, you gotta take off your three, four girdles. Yeah, I mean a little hoop skirt. Yeah, no, it wasn't. I would have done shit myself. It was a lot, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Um I just honestly, it it just kind of blows me away. Um, they said, I mean, they said it's like a trademark infringement. Um What do you mean trademark? Yeah, so they're saying that it was just like they're so the coffee shop was like trademark a murder!

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Yeah, exactly. Trademark 9-11. So and then the eviction was triggered by the expiration of the lease rather than default on rent payments. Um I'm so easy. They evicted that guy because his lease expired. Um pancakes. Which I want to know, like what in the actual fuck?

SPEAKER_00 57:22

So his lease expired and you evicted him. Like, who owns that coffee shop property? That's what I want to know. Probably the corporation. Yeah, I just I mean, it's just to me, it's wild. Um I should I actually should have looked into that.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Oh, so uh Miss Lizzie's museum owners claim that the cafe's name and hatchet logo were confusingly similar to their established trademarks. So, yep, they do. That company's so evil evil, they gotta be landlords. Yeah, I think that's what it is. Um, so I don't know what else it could be. Yeah, it just sucks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Um, it and then what it comes down to is you know, the guy that owned the coffee shop, he dismissed his lawyer probably because he couldn't fucking afford it. And they're like, oh, you can't afford a lawyer. Well, guess what?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Now we can't afford a lawyer after we find you like $500,000 for just owning a small family-owned coffee shop to feed your family. I I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

What do you mean you can't afford a lawyer? Just shitty.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Oh my god, I fucking hate corporations. Yeah, so anyways, that was uh yeah. The the originally they did like a defamation claim, you know, because it was like the boycott Lizzie Borden. They're doing that to themselves. Yeah, I know, right? I don't even think the coffee shop made that Facebook group. They blame the coffee shop for it. Like, what if there's more than one person in that town that just doesn't fucking like you? Yeah, like everybody. Yeah. Like take your fucking house and shove it up your ass. It's not even their house! Well, I mean, I mean, that's the thing. It's like the they are they're literally just scooping up these properties, and they're I mean it's a big corporation, and these they're coming in these small towns and they're just taking them over, and people are just getting pissed, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's people that are fucking boycotting the McIntyre villa, too. And there's a lot of people, but I'm wondering if um yeah, I don't know. It just kind of wilds me. So Yeah. So that's our uh that's our episode on the Lizzie Borden case. So Matt or Amia, were you what did you think when you started looking into it? I just gotta know what your reaction was because you didn't know anything about it. My immediate thought was she did that shit. Yeah? She totally did. Yeah. Victorians are stupid. It's all the arsenic. It's all the arsenic? Because there's no I I've solved that shit in five seconds. So do you think why do you think that the maid was like sticking up for it then? Do you think that maybe the maid didn't like what if the dad was trying to diddle the maid too? She totally was. You think so? Totally was. And she was probably fucking tired of getting all handsy with her? Yeah. So I mean, honestly. That's what happens most of the time, especially with Victorians. They were not very monogamous, at least the men. Uh and I mean, cheating was like so big back then. There was a lot of allegations against her dad. A lot. You know. He totally did that shit. His name's Andrew. Oh, you can't say that. Not everybody named Andrew's bad. So um, I'm sorry to any Andrew who's not an asshole out there. Um there may be. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I'm just saying. Uh, we hope you keep listening. And uh, you know, we have we do have some pretty cool ideas coming up. Um, we have an episode that we're gonna be doing with Maddie. Um, it was her idea. The baby snatches. The baby snatches. Um it's kind of a dark smash. Snatch it's a source. Oh shit. That's a good title. Oh no. Yeah. Is it insensitive or is that a good title? I I think it's we're kind of insensitive. Yeah, we are kind of insensitive. So we're not a corporation. We're not a corporation, we're just assholes. So, anyways, I hope you guys have a great day. Thank you so much for listening.